Post-election priorities for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children

Episode Description

In this post-election episode of Kids, Culture, Community – SNAICC Yarns, Mandy Taylor has an in-person conversation with SNAICC CEO Catherine Liddle on the lands of the Wurundjeri people in Narrm. Against the backdrop of the federal election, Mandy and Catherine share candid insights about the emotional toll of the federal election period and the unexpected optimism that has emerged from election night.

Together, they discuss the implications of the re-elected Labor Government’s commitments to Closing the Gap, the importance of keeping children safe and connected to culture and the role of early childhood education in ensuring Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children thrive in culture. Catherine shares personal anecdotes about how the election narrative affected Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children, families and communities, as well as where the next steps will take us, particularly in prioritising Safe and Supported policies and commitments to keeping children safe in their own homes and stopping the flow of children into child detention and out-of-home care.

Keep the conversation going—follow and share this podcast episode to amplify the voices of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children, families, and communities.

Explore the stories, topics and issues discussed in this episode of Kids, Culture, Community – SNAICC Yarns through the resources below.

Whether you’re looking to learn more about languages, truth-telling, the policy landscape or child safety, these links offer valuable context and opportunities for deeper understanding.

Links & Further Reading:

News & Media

• 2025 Federal Election Result | SNAICC in the News
  • SNAICC in the News covering the 2025 Federal Election result and what it means for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children.
• Federal Election Result – a win for our children | SNAICC
  • Media Release welcoming and congratulating Anthony Albanese and the Australian Labor Party on their win in the 2025 Federal Election.
• ABC News – ‘Neo-Nazis’ boo Welcome to Country at Melbourne Anzac Day dawn service
  • News coverage of Welcome to Country.

Acknowledgement of Country and Welcome to Country

• Reconciliation Australia – Acknowledgement of Country and Welcome to Country
  • Learn and understand why these practices are important in recognising Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples and their ongoing connection to Country.
• Common Ground – Acknowledgement of Country and Welcome to Country
  • Explains the difference between an Acknowledgement and a Welcome.

Policy and Child Safety

• Safe and Supported: the National Framework for Protecting Australia’s Children (2021–2031)
  • The national policy framework referenced by Catherine Liddle, focusing on child safety, early intervention and family support.
• Family Matters Report
  • Annual report and data tracking the over-representation of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children in out-of-home care.

Truth-telling

• View The Statement – Uluru Statement from the Heart
  • The Uluru Statement from the Heart is an invitation from Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples to all Australians nd calls for substantive constitutional reform, including truth-telling and agreement-making.

Languages

• Languages – Central Land Council
  • Explore the language families of Central Australia; resource offers detailed insights into the many dialects spoken across the Northern Territory, South Australia, Western Australia and Queensland, and provides access to Central Australian language resources.
• Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies
  • Access language databases, research and education tools.

This artwork was created to visually represent Kids, Culture, Community – SNAICC Yarns, a podcast by SNAICC – National Voice for our Children, dedicated to amplifying the voices and experiences of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children, families, and communities.

At the heart of the artwork is a central motif drawn directly from the SNAICC Marulu design – a symbolic anchor that represents SNAICC’s identity, purpose, and vision. This central element grounds the piece, reflecting SNAICC’s leadership in advocating for the rights, wellbeing, and futures of our children.

Surrounding this are three figures, symbolising a community in conversation. These figures represent not only the act of yarning, but the diversity of voices – children, families, Elders, leaders, and community members – who will be heard through the podcast. The figures are encircled by layered soundwaves that ripple outward and inward, capturing both the expression of voice and the act of deep listening.

These soundwaves reflect how stories, knowledge, and lived experiences are shared, received, and echoed across communities – from grassroots voices to national conversations. The design intentionally shows sound as both something that travels outward to inform and inspire, and something that returns inward to strengthen identity, connection, and culture.

Content Warning: SNAICC advises Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people that this episode of Kids, Culture, Community – SNAICC Yarns contains references to topics that may be triggering to the community. Your social and emotional safety is important. If this recording has brought up any concerns or issues for you, please contact 13YARN on 13 92 76

Mandy Taylor

Welcome everyone to SNAICC Yarns with Catherine Liddle, the CEO of SNAICC. I’m Mandy Taylor, I’m the Executive Director, Office of the CEO at SNAICC. I get tired saying that title, it’s really long, I’m going to have to think of a shortcut, Catherine Liddle. But welcome, and can you give us an Acknowledgement of Country?

Catherine Liddle

Absolutely, what a privilege. I acknowledge that today I am sitting on the lands of the Wurundjeri, part of that incredible Kulin Nation here on Narrm. And it’s interesting, Mandy, as you were saying, as you were giving our titles, I was like, ‘ah man, do we really have to hear our titles again, couldn’t we just say hey, it’s Mandy and Catherine?’

Mandy Taylor

Yeah, we can. Hey, it’s Mandy and Catherine! And of course, we’re coming to you on the other side of the federal election. Phew!

Catherine Liddle

Phew.

Mandy Taylor

Well, Catherine Liddle, we’re sitting opposite each other, face to face.

Catherine Liddle

Yeah.

Mandy Taylor

Same city, same room. This is unusual.

Catherine Liddle

It is. Particularly when you consider that we live in the same town.

Mandy Taylor

It is—shh, don’t tell anyone that—we’re not even in the town we actually live in, Mparntwe Alice Springs, we’re here in Narrm, in Melbourne.

Catherine Liddle

Beautiful Narrm. And she has turned on the most incredible day. The clouds are an incredible silver and grey, and then there’s this beautiful blue coming through the clouds. And the landscape in front of me is one of both city and trees. And what an incredible landscape that makes. It’s like—you might have a city here, but the Country still has its presence and the trees still have their strength. And for me, that says a lot about the Country that we’re sitting on.

Mandy Taylor

It is. It’s really beautiful—even though, like you, I’m a desert rat. Love my desert country, and the hues, and the reds, and the oranges, and the purples. But getting to see these different, particularly the big urban landscapes, but like you said, there are still flashes of green and flashes of Country, and the river as well—I really love the river.

Catherine Liddle

I love the Yarra, love the bays. And it’s funny that you say that, because I was in Sydney last week, and I was travelling through one of those tunnels, and anyone who knows me knows—travelling through tunnels is not easy for me. And there was this moment where I felt comfortable and I looked around the tunnel and I went, you know what—even with this incredible grey of concrete buildings, this Country is still beautiful. And it was at that moment in time that my body just sort of settled down, when I went—you know what, I can still see what the lands of the Cammeraygal mob and the Eora Nation mob had. And even in that grey tunnel, it made me feel calm.

Mandy Taylor

You know what I’m going to do? What I think is a really clever segue here—coming out of tunnels. We’ve just come out of an election tunnel.

Catherine Liddle

Oh, my goodness, yeah.

Mandy Taylor

It does feel like coming out of a tunnel, this one, doesn’t it?

Catherine Liddle

It does. It does. And again, if I reflect on that feeling of going through that tunnel last week—maybe that’s the reason. Because it was feeling pretty heavy. I’m not going to lie—it felt heavy. The faces of the people around me looked distressed. The conversations were ones of distress. And that wasn’t only coming from the Aboriginal community—that was coming from right across the NGO sector. There were phone calls coming in left, right and centre of people just checking on each other to say, ‘is everyone okay?’ because the narrative was just ugly. The narrative was ugly. And no one really knew what to expect. And you know—we all know that I look to the skies. I genuinely do. I look for understanding in the landscapes that I see. And it was really hard to see through some of those grey clouds.

Mandy Taylor

It was—it was genuinely really distressing. Particularly in that last week, when we saw that the culture wars flare up again—deliberately—as an election and as a political ploy. What do you think that impact had on the end result? I’ve heard someone say ‘picking over the entrails’—which is a really ghastly way of saying it. But I think we do have to, because we do have to learn from this experience as well, don’t we?

Catherine Liddle

We do. We do. And one of the conversations I had—and again, it was from someone from the NGO sector—was, at the end of the day, she believes in the humanity of Australians. And some of what the narrative we were seeing was inhumane.

And you know—who ever thought, who ever thought that on ANZAC Day, we would see a narrative that supported the behaviour of a neo-Nazi? The people that we fought against. The people that Australians—including our own mob—were willing to die to prevent the spread of that ideology. When did we ever think that we’d be seeing that splashed across the papers as a way of combating a Welcome to Country—a kind Welcome to Country that the RSL supported, that our servicemen and women—because we’ve got them too—that, that one call, when they’re in those rooms, when they’re out there, when they’re listening to the stories of the fallen—that’s the one that makes them feel safe, and it was just an extraordinary moment in time.

And what I hear, and what I had been hearing—and I know anyone who’s heard SNAICC speak—we often say Australians are sick of it. They are sick of the nonsense. And that is—we had heard that. We had heard whispers that polling was showing that people didn’t like the ugly speak. And that they didn’t like ugly behaviours.

Now, I didn’t know which of those polls to pick or listen to. And I didn’t know how much trust to put in any of those polls. But believe it or not—my husband, he likes a flutter. And he said, “You might want to go and look at Sportsbet”, and I looked at Sportsbet. And those polls were showing something quite extraordinary. And they were showing that Australians were highly likely going to bet on a Labor government, and not by a small margin—by a big margin. I became addicted to looking at that page.

Mandy Taylor

I know—you kept sending me the screenshots of the odds!

Catherine Liddle

I screenshotted everybody. I screenshotted everyone.

Mandy Taylor

Which, as you say, are remarkable odds.

Catherine Liddle

Absolutely. They went from a negative to 12 dollars. 12 dollars to one!

Mandy Taylor

Basically, if you were Coalition in that home stretch of the election—you were running on three legs according to the odds.

Catherine Liddle

According to—according to Sportsbet of all places. And I think again—you know, my husband doesn’t do the sort of work that I do. He’s very much, for lack of a better term, the common man. And he said the reason—

Mandy Taylor

He’s a tradie. He’s a tradie.

Catherine Liddle

He’s a tradie. And he said the reason he was looking at those polls is: the people that he speaks to as a tradie were telling him a different conversation. And he said, “I just thought—I’ll just check what it’s doing.” And he goes, “This is the common man that bets at Sportsbet and they’re very rarely wrong.” And come the night of the election, I turned off. I actually turned off. I just—I just couldn’t do it. But having said that, I still checked the Sportsbet page. And there was a point there where it said 19 to 1, and then something like 29 to 1. And I went, that’s extraordinary. And next minute, the phone started buzzing, and people are going, “You might want to check the result.”

Oh, my goodness, what a moment in time.

Mandy Taylor

It was remarkable. But also, what I found reassuring, in a way, or gave us some hope, was when the then-Opposition Leader Peter Dutton gave what was a very gracious speech in defeat.

Catherine Liddle

Oh, wasn’t it?

Mandy Taylor

I thought. Bit late—but better late than never. But what was really remarkable and instilled a sense of hope back in me was the very—almost defiant Acknowledgements of Country given by Senator Penny Wong and Anthony Albanese on Saturday night. Also, hearing the Prime Minister reference Closing the Gap and reference early education and care was really, really, I think—lit that little flame of hope in me. But what about you? What did you reckon?

Catherine Liddle

Yes, to all of those things. I too noticed the incredible graciousness from the Opposition Leader in his farewell speech or acknowledgement speech. You know, I think someone who works in a job like mine, I’ve got to be—for lack of better term—centrist. I’ve got to see the best in all political parties, I’ve got to be able to see where the pathway forward is in each of those opportunities. And there was something in the graciousness that I went, okay, maybe we might have turned a corner. Maybe we might have turned a corner.

And there was something in the power of that Acknowledgement of Country that just made people yell and scream and said no, we don’t need to be scared. And that’s what I’d been hearing heading into the federal election, that people for the very first time—Aboriginal people—were scared about an election result. And that says a lot considering how our children picked up and battered in those election processes. So, it was also, as you say, incredibly encouraging knowing that there were remarkable commitments to Early Education and Care coming through.

But again, where we have the big gap, and every single party had this big gap, and that was the commitment to keeping children safe in their own homes, where was the commitment to that massive policy framework, Safe and Supported, that we know is critical to ensuring the strength of our families, critical to ensuring that we shift the dialog on our children, and critical to understand—to stopping the flow of children into horrific positions like child detention.

Mandy Taylor:

And as you always say, Catherine, closing the gap starts with our children, so the work at keeping children safe, keeping children with family, keeping children with community, it all starts in the early years. So, I guess I know we have a lot of work to do to get the new government—all members of the new government—to reach those ambitions.

Catherine Liddle

Yeah, yeah. And again, it is one of those things that, again, you look at the political landscape, it is a completely different shape, one that we’ve never had to navigate before. And there are some incredible opportunities in that. But there’s also, you know, again, I’ve got to read that landscape and go hmm who have we got to lean into, prod and poke to help move the incredible beasts of machinery that government are.

So, the only way we can do that is by leaning into the government that’s in play, really, and saying, step up at this moment in time, no one has ever had the opportunity to make change like you do, but the only way you’re going to do it is to move and move fast and, again, my job is to look at that landscape and go election cycles run in three years. The first year is the year for change. The first 100 days is the most critical time of change. We know that come year two, the conversation starts to soften, and we know year three, we head back into election cycles, and that is why the first 100 days in the first year are so critical.

So, it really will be hitting the ground hard, making sure that we’re taking to government practical solutions for closing the gap, practical solutions that will make an impact for our communities and our families, and really leaning into what change—what’s required to move the beast of machinery that governments are.

Mandy Taylor

Exactly right. I think that you’re talking about the beasts of machinery and getting policy levers, but it’s also about engaging, I think, politicians’ hearts and minds, elevating them. And you know, we’ve seen, as you said, some really ugly debates in this election campaign. And when I think about it, I was thinking a lot of it based on so much misunderstanding and misinformation.

If we take Acknowledgements and Welcomes to Country with people just not knowing what they are, and particularly thinking about the impact on children, but I think nearly every Early Education Centre, every preschool, every kinder, as far as I know, now does an Acknowledgement of Country, and to see the kids and hear the kids doing it, that it’s just really beautiful, it’s not a big deal. And when you talk to them about what it means to them and what they’re saying. It’s just really talking about practical reconciliation. I reckon that’s where it starts.

Catherine Liddle

Oh, look, I love going—whenever I get the opportunity to visit early education care service or a school, my heart just nearly explodes at watching how proud children are to do those Acknowledgements. And every now and then, it’s also a child that belongs on that Country and they get to do a Welcome. And I heard a funny story the other day, actually, that it comes from my own family. My little granny, who’s five, was at the opening of a yoga centre, of all things, and someone was up the front doing a Welcome to Country, and mentioned that she was Arrernte. And so Tildy at five heard that and jumped up the front said, can I have the microphone? And the old Aunty gives her the microphone, she says my name’s Matilda and I’m Arrernte too.

So that is, that is what’s coming through from children. And we also know that things like the language learnings and teachings that our children are able to access, schools and early childhood services always report how popular those courses are. I know even in Alice Springs, when you’re walking down the street, you hear younger children practising those words and bringing those words back into mainstream conversation.

You know, you often talk about Aboriginal English, but to be perfectly honest, if you’re in Alice Springs everyone understands the word itye and everyone understands the word ware, everyone knows kapi, everyone knows kwatye, and those ones I’ve just given you are no and water because they’re easy ones. But imagine what that’s going to look like if we continue to celebrate, and our children continue to grow from hearing and learning language and culture.

Mandy Taylor

And as you said, they all know they’re on Arrernte land. Most of them know they are little yipirinyas—little caterpillars—from being born on Arrernte land, and they take such great pride in that, in knowing who they are, even, you know, the non-Aboriginal children as well, are really proud of knowing who they are and where they fit in.

Catherine Liddle

Yeah, that’s right. I do remember, you know, when we had the Yipirinya Festival and, while it was a long time ago and that old Grandpa Rubuntja was out there and using the words of you’re all little yipirinyas and how that changed the landscape going—because it really did say, you know, well, we’re still here, and while we still practice our culture and while we’re still very proud of what makes us unique, we love sharing. We love embracing other people, and we love nurturing and sharing how we nurture with other people.

Mandy Taylor

Also, I was reflecting, Catherine, where we were talking about this as well, about, they’re the truth of those children, as well as aren’t they? The Weclomes and the Acknowledgements, and when the children do it, and when they say what impact it has and what it means to them. They’re telling their story. They’re telling their truths. And of course, truth-telling is still one of the pillars of the Uluru Statement.

Catherine Liddle

It is. And certainly, until we can start telling our truths and creating the opportunities for those truths to be told, we’re going to have misunderstanding. And one of the things I witnessed as we were heading into the election was, actually, you know, like all Australians, I have a very diverse family with lots of different views. And one of my uncles put this strange post up after Anzac, actually. And normally I just, you know, normally—you can’t, you can’t be at every bar fight, right? For lack of better term, you can’t step up to every single argument, or you’d run out of time in the day.

Mandy Taylor

And you’re exhausted.

Catherine Liddle

And you’re exhausted. And this time I just went, you know what? I’m going to call it. And I thought about how I was gonna call it, and I had two options. One was to go full attack mode, and the other one was just to say I am really disappointed. And that’s the pathway I chose. And I went, I am really disappointed, because you have completely misunderstood this, and perhaps what you need to do is just do a little bit of deep digging.

And I got this two-page message on Messenger, and I’m like I’m not gonna open it, I’m not gonna open it, because I just don’t have the energy in me. And I went, no, no, you poked the bear, take a look at what it was. And this family member went and looked it up, and it was a two-page apology for not understanding, not showing enough empathy to go and look, and how terrible he felt about not trying. And now that he understood, he would use that, because not only could he do better, but he knew a whole heap of other Australians that could do better too. And that is the impact of truth-telling.

That is the impact of creating an environment where Australians themselves can go on a bit of an exploration, because at the end of the day, they are human, all Australians are humans. And when you hear what has happened to our families, when you hear what the impact of colonisation has truly been from the mouths of Aboriginal people, there is no way you cannot be moved by it.

Mandy Taylor

Very true. And I think also when you can’t fail to be moved when you hear of the successes and the richness, and just, you know, the everyday wins.

Catherine Liddle

Yeah, absolutely.

Mandy Taylor

That are out there as well. You know, it’s something that we should take great pride in. Yeah, well done. Changed at least one heart.

Catherine Liddle

Yeah, absolutely. One can only hope. And it was funny, even for someone like myself, it was a bit of a learning lesson for me to go, maybe the way you talk to some of the people is slightly different. And again, that’s part of what we do in the advocacy part of SNAICC, is working out how we have conversations that make people uncomfortable, but bring them along on the journey.

Mandy Taylor

Exactly, and it’s not always easy. It can be tough, tough for us as SNAICC as well, but, hey, it’s what—that’s what we’re doing. It gets me out of bed in the morning. I know it’s what gets you out of bed in the morning as well.

Also, what gets you out of bed is your singing. Last time we talked, you gave us a bit of a rendition of The Devil Went Down to Georgia, so if we’re looking at that now, that same song, so here we go, I’m giving you another chance to sing, I’m so generous. But what does that metaphor mean now? Like, you know, before, when you sang it before, it was leading up to an election, you know, how is it going to look? You know, a bit of trepidation, but now, where’s the devil sitting now, Catherine Liddle?

Catherine Liddle

Yeah, yeah, well it’s interesting isn’t it? I’m glad you said that, I promise you I’m not going to break out into song.

But it’s true, I was overwhelmed with stress. And I think I’ve had it described to me many, many times as one of my strengths is I’m an intuitive leader. And, you know, intuitive can make it sound like you’re a bit magic, but in actual fact, what it means is you’re listening to multiple inputs, and you’re able to synthesise them, and you’re able to recognise patterns in behaviours, effectively, is what an intuitive leader means. And my intuition would not let go of that song.

And when I think about it now, in hindsight, Johnny won. Johnny won that golden guitar, and Johnny beat the devil with all of his power. And I suspect what it was was I was listening to those phone calls of people that were ringing up and just checking in on Aboriginal people during a time of great distress. I was listening to young people when they were talking about a different world and not a world that we saw. I was listening to the cheers of women in particular when they said, look what’s happening in early childhood education and care. This is awesome. And I was listening in to the diversity of Australian voices that were saying, we’re aspiring to an incredible future. We don’t know what it looks like, because technology is changing, the global landscape is shifting, but we’re leaning into something that could be exciting.

So my gut is that is that is what I was hearing. That particular song was resonating with me. Because if you apply it and while the devil was a bit harsh. What it really was, was there is a framework or an institution here that’s a bit scary and is used to beating the common man. And in actual fact, democracy is about enabling the common man to have a vote, and that’s all people to have a vote, including us mob. And that’s what I take from that. Johnny won.

Mandy Taylor

Johnny won. And now we’ve got a lot of work ahead of us.

Catherine Liddle

A lot of work ahead of us, and I am really looking forward to it. The future looks very bright from a policy landscape. The future looks very bright. But the work will be really solid. We have to make sure that, you know, some of the things we’re leaning into include legislating that National Commissioner. Here was the commitment in the last election. It wasn’t fully implemented before the election, which, let’s be very clear, it was really at risk, but you now have three years push on it. Make sure we have the highest accountability mechanism available to our children, fully empowered, fully legislated, and ready to hit the ground and work alongside our communities, work alongside our children, work alongside government to truly shine a light onto the things that are causing harm.

We also know that we need those commitments to the new—a new funding model for our early childhood educator education and care services. Now we hear, even from the NGO sector, that the model of care that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people use is the gold standard. So, what we need now is a recognition of that and the investment that says, in order for you to genuinely build the services that are right for you, you need to be able to develop a—you need to be able to develop it in a way that suits you. Now that means that we’re not saying this KPI sits over in this box over here, and this KPI—and I’m going into boring speak here—means that you do it this way. It says, What do you need? What do you need? How do we know it’s working? And let’s make this happen.

So, we know that there are still some big pieces of work done, needed to push that. We know that the Closing the Gap statistics relating to children are still something that can only be described—even though I’m sounding positive—the only way to describe them is a national disgrace.

Now again, it’s for someone like me who is across the figures, consistently across figures. What I know is that since the national agreement was put into play, and since we started seeing changes in how we’re able to work with government, and how services are able to start pulling levers that they never had access to before, we’re starting to see channels in that tide of over-representation opening up. And across the board, we are returning more children to their families than ever before. But the biggest problem here is that tidal wave is bigger than the channels that are opening. So, without a true and true commitment to transferring services to Aboriginal control, we’re never going to be able to combat that tidal wave, because it’s our services that invest in what children and families need to be strong. We know that currently in the landscape, the majority of the dollars—and I hate talking about dollars when we’re talking about children—but we know that the services that get the bulk of the funding to care for our families are the ones that do the least work with our families. That just beggars belief.

Mandy

It makes no sense. And Catherine, we have got so much to do, we’d better start going and knocking on those ministerial doors and telling our story to them.

Thanks! Podcast number two, done and dusted.

Catherine

Done and dusted. Thank you, Mandy, and thank you to anyone who’s tuning in.